Wednesday, September 19, 2007

Venezuelan education

The latest flap over Venezuela is the announcement that private schools must submit to the state’s socialist curriculum or be shut down.

"We must train socially minded people to help the community, and that's why the revolution's socialist program is being implemented," said Zulay Campos, a member of a Bolivarian StateAcademic Commission that evaluates compliance with academic guidelines.

"If they attack us because we're indoctrinating, well yes, we're doing it, because those capitalistideas that our young people have — and that have done so much damage to our people — must be eliminated," Campos said.
And

But Adan Chavez said the goal is to develop "critical thinking," not to impose a single philosophy
It is well worth reading the interview of Adán Chávez, who is the Minister of Popular Power for Education. Unfortunately, the ministry’s site does not provide specific links to different pages, but it can be easily found by searching for “Entrevista a Ministro del Poder Popular para la Educación,” on September 19, 2007.

El punto fundamental está en que sectores de la oposición han utilizado el término para tratar de confundir, como si eso fuese algo pecaminoso. No. Es la lucha de las ideas, repito. Se trata de transformar el viejo sistema capitalista, salvaje, destructor,basado en los antivalores que mencioné, en una nueva sociedad, en un sistema educativo que nos va a permitir construir, definitivamente, el hombre nuevo, la mujer nueva.
What bothers me is the insistence that it is a battle over ideas, when in fact the state is telling you that one idea must die and the other is the only future for the country. It reminds me of all the junk being taught in U.S. school systems, where capitalism is shining, triumphant and flawless. For all his criticism of the U.S., Chávez is just doing the same in reverse. One thing is evil, one is good; you’re for us or against us. Neither involves much critical thinking.

29 comments:

Justin Delacour 10:25 AM  

What bothers me is the insistence that it is a battle over ideas, when in fact the state is telling you that one idea must die and the other is the only future for the country. It reminds me of all the junk being taught in U.S. school systems, where capitalism is shining, triumphant and flawless. For all his criticism of the U.S., Chávez is just doing the same in reverse. One thing is evil, one is good; you’re for us or against us. Neither involves much critical thinking.

First of all, we don't really know --on the basis of one short AP report-- what these education reforms fully entail.

Secondly, the analogy you draw is a seriously problematic one because it lacks social context. It's not just that the U.S. school system peddles capitalist values. It's that our entire system of ideological reproduction --the media, the churches, etc. etc.-- peddle such a value system.

Such is not the case in Venezuela. Like I've mentioned before, the opposition continues to dominate newspapers and radio, and they also continue to have a very significant presence in television.

So the difference is that, whereas the United States has literally no major venue for the expression of non-capitalist ideas, Venezuela most surely continues to have major venues for the expression of capitalist values. That's the problem with your analogy.

Miguel Centellas 11:09 AM  

Greg:

I'm going to enjoy the mental acrobatics people are sure to employ to "explain" this.

Greg Weeks 11:18 AM  

My argument is about the state’s role in education and its indoctrination goals. What happens more broadly in society is not “context” so much as a different—though obviously related—topic. The longer the educational system remains closed-minded, the more that its products become media figures, church leaders, etc. who have been trained to think the same way.

Justin Delacour 12:44 PM  

The longer the educational system remains closed-minded, the more that its products become media figures, church leaders, etc. who have been trained to think the same way.

First of all, nobody's shown that Venezuela's education system will be closed-minded. Will teaching about, say, Marxism necessarily preclude schools from teaching about, say, David Ricardo? You have to be able to answer those types of questions first before jumping to the conclusion that the education system will be closed-minded.

Secondly, your argument above is premised upon the assumption of a unidirectional relationship between the formal education system and the informal education system (i.e. society's other modes of ideological reproduction, including media, the church, etc. etc.).

My guess is that the relationship between formal and informal education is actually interactive, not unidirectional.

In American society, for example, there's a strong case to be made that media in general have as much if not more effect upon us ideologically as the formal education system.

Greg Weeks 1:51 PM  

The member of the state academic commission said capitalist ideas must be eliminated. I will let everyone decide for themselves whether or not that is close-minded.

Justin Delacour 2:04 PM  

The member of the state academic commission said capitalist ideas must be eliminated. I will let everyone decide for themselves whether or not that is close-minded.

That's analogous to saying that you could assess a school board's proposals on the basis of what one far-right member of the board says, without having really looked over the proposals themselves.

As you yourself noted, the Minister of Popular Power for Education said the goal was to develop 'critical thinking,' not to impose a single philosophy.

Naturally, we shouldn't take the Minister at his word. But neither does it make much sense to prematurely draw conclusions about what such educational reform would mean in practice or whether it would be "closed-minded."

Miguel Centellas 8:41 AM  

I suppose we could take the government's overall track record in how it deals w/ dissenting view points. Put together, there's a clear pattern in Venezuela of the regime working to control all areas of public life.

Anonymous,  8:47 AM  

"I suppose we could take the government's overall track record in how it deals w/ dissenting view points."


Hmmm. Yes. It lets those viewpoints be freely expressed and discussed in front of the National Assembly.

Or did I dream that?

Pepito

Justin Delacour 12:48 PM  

I suppose we could take the government's overall track record in how it deals w/ dissenting view points. Put together, there's a clear pattern in Venezuela of the regime working to control all areas of public life.

Total nonsense. Venezuela is a country where the opposition has --and will continue to have-- multiple venues for expressing its opposition to the government. In fact, it has a much much bigger bullhorn than the U.S. left does.

Let's look at the facts, Miguel. One more time, you can walk up to any kiosk in downtown Caracas and pick up any number of opposition newspapers: El Universal, El Nacional, Tal Cual, etc. etc. Can I do that in the United States? No. In fact, there is no such thing as an opposition daily in the United States.

You can also watch the rabidly anti-Chavez Globovision on public television in Caracas. Can I do tht in the United States? No. In fact, there is no such thing as an opposition news channel in the United States (unless, of course, the Democrats are in power, in which they case they must contend with Fox News).

You could also hear opposition perspectives on two other public channels in Venezuela: Televen and Venevision. And you can watch the rabidly anti-Chavez RCTV on cable as well. And that's not to mention that the opposition controls most of the radio frecuencies.

So, frankly, Miguel, you don't have a leg to stand on when you claim that dissent is repressed in Venezuela.

Miguel Centellas 2:34 PM  

Justin:

Are you making fun of people without legs?

Justin Delacour 4:05 PM  

Are you making fun of people without legs?

Like I told Randy once, Miguel, to be an effective snark requires that you actually say something clever.

Keep tryin', big fella.

Miguel Centellas 4:07 PM  

Who defines what is clever?

Justin Delacour 8:18 PM  

Like I said, keep tryin.'

Anonymous,  9:25 PM  

A little omission. Adan Chavez's is Hugo's brother. Just in case someone thought the guy was a brilliant educator.

Justin, You seem to really understand the context there. What's your field experience in Venezuela?

Boli-Nica 2:54 AM  

With this its hard to even get to the point where you can have a serious discussion about what is or isn't "indoctrination" in a nations educational system, public vs. private schools, etc., etc.

Chavez publically says he wants to impose an educational system directed to teach 'socialist values'. This is beyond Twilight Zone/Macondo weird and absurd.

What next, teaching the sun revolves around the earth?

Its 2007, no one besides the deluded, the blind and the stupid believes that nonesense.
Centrally planned economies failed as a rule, and tens of millions died because of collectivistic foolishnes.
--Basing your state around unworkable and evil dogmas seems just....wrong.

Justin Delacour 5:52 PM  

Justin, You seem to really understand the context there. What's your field experience in Venezuela?

It's not that extensive. I spent a couple months in Caracas in the summer of 2005, and shorter stints there in the summers of 2004 and 2006.

Anonymous,  8:27 PM  

Justin,
Has the Venezuelan government paid for your trips in any way?

Justin Delacour 9:17 PM  

Has the Venezuelan government paid for your trips in any way?

Not sure what the relevance of the question is, but oh well.

In the summer of 2006, a trip I took to Venezuela to participate in some forums about media issues was paid for by one of the government's ministries.

Greg Weeks 9:30 PM  

Who gives a crap?

Justin Delacour 10:13 PM  

Who gives a crap?

My thoughts as well.

Anonymous,  11:47 PM  

The regime you defend over, over, over and over, gives a crap.

Chavez is accusing a group of Venezuelan journalist of being American agents because they have traveled to the US to do exactly what you did in Venezuela. They could end up in jail because of this. Jail in Venezuela is not like jail in your home town.

Sin embargo, the real reason why I asked was because I don't understand how you can defend everything Chavez does.

For instance, you are the first to answer all comments about Chavez made in this space and always, always support it. Even in cases like the one discussed in this forum.

The first thing that comes to mind is that they are probably paying you for PR support. Do they?

Is that trip all you have gotten from Venezuela? I mean, grants, donations, goodies, cash from Antonini.

Justin Delacour 12:15 PM  

For instance, you are the first to answer all comments about Chavez made in this space and always, always support it.

That's actually false. My point in this thread is that we would need to see more than one measly AP report to accurately assess the Venezuelan government's proposed educational reforms. I don't see how this point is controversial.

Justin Delacour 12:31 PM  

Moreover, anonymous, if you disagree with my points, then presumably you could attempt to refute them. The fact that you don't attempt to refute them suggests to me that you lack confidence in the persuasiveness of your own convictions.

Justin Delacour 12:40 PM  

Oh, and one more thing, anonymous. Do you honestly think that, if I was being paid to come on Greg's blog to defend the Chavez government, I would divulge to you that one trip I took to Venezuela was paid for by a government ministry?

Think about it, anonymous. A PR man is not usually forthcoming with such information.

But to answer your question, anonymous, no, I'm not paid to do PR work for the Venezuelan government. I'm speaking for myself here.

Greg Weeks 4:11 PM  

The funniest part of all this is the idea that the Venezuelan government would see my blog as so important and influential that anything critical would require an agent of the government to refute it. I wish it were true!

Anonymous,  7:39 PM  

Sorry señor semanas. There are not a lot of sites like this about Latam. Pr agencies are paying attention to blogs. I am not sure it's the best strategy but it is fashionable. Plus, this blog can have more impact than you think, or por lo menos potencial. Most sites about the region are crap. This one has substance.

Justin,
I also have to apologize. You are so manichean that I de verdad thought you were bought by Antonini. Besides, you know Chavez's propaganda budget is kind of extra large. I overestimated you. These are actually your ideas. That explains why you support indoctrination.

A warning from anonymous /he wrote great books so dont ignore him/: When you understand Venezuela it will be late. It will probably take a mass execution, or a Padilla. But the day will come when te des cuenta you apoyaste el lado que no era.

PS: You cant disclosed what's public. google your name my camarada y conseguirás tu rabo de paja.

Justin Delacour 8:06 PM  

That explains why you support indoctrination.

Uh, no, actually, I don't "support indoctrination." What I support is honest discussions about whether indoctrination exists (or is slated for the future) on the basis of serious analysis of the facts.

If you want to seriously debate the issue, then go back over the thread and try responding to my actual points.

Anonymous,  11:20 PM  

All right. Let’s talk ideas and let’s play by your rules, no media reports. Here go five quote from the multimillion TV production called Alo Presidente (284) and starred by king to be Chavez:

“Entonces, sencillamente hay que explicarlo, explicarles a los muchachos y a todos, a todos que la escuela bolivariana es socialismo, sólo en socialismo se puede lograr esto.”

“Estamos obligados y más aún cuando yo, Presidente de la República, he llamado al país, a todos a seguir por el camino del socialismo.”

“Si nosotros no convertimos a la Escuela Bolivariana en el epicentro de la lucha social, no estaríamos cumpliendo con el objetivo, o más que el objetivo, con el impulso, con la inspiración y con el esfuerzo y con las metas del proceso revolucionario.”

“Insisto,recuerden que aquí se trata de que hay una gran estrategia dentro de la cualdeben inscribirse todos estos recursos: la construcción de una sociedad nueva,la construcción del socialismo.”

And here is the definition of socialism (then you wonder why they call him populist?):

“Más aún si nosotros sabemos que el socialismo es el camino de la redención del hombre, lo que vino Cristo a anunciar hace dos mil años, eso es el socialismo.”

“Una de la bases del capitalismo es la oscuridad y del socialismo, las luces.”

And now fragments from an interview to the brother king, also minister of education, published in his website:

“De acuerdo al nuevo proyecto de ley de Educación se requiere un proceso educativo "orientado a la formación de un individuo en una sociedad en transformación". ¿Capitalismo versus socialismo?
“Pues sí, ya lo hemos dicho abiertamente desde hace varios años. Venezuela está en una etapa de transición hacia el socialismo, que hemos denominado socialismo del siglo XXI, porque efectivamente es nuestro propio socialismo.
Tenemos nuestra figura ideológica, que es el árbol de las tres raíces, para simbolizar el pensamiento de Simón Rodríguez, Simón Bolívar y Ezequiel Zamora. En definitiva asumimos el pensamiento de los luchadores no sólo de Venezuela sino de América Latina por la auténtica libertad de nuestra patria y de este continente.”

I this he defines his education process as a flight of ideas, very inclusive indeed:
“A eso no hay que tenerle ningún temor, porque estamos transformando un sistema basado en la educación para el egoísmo, el individualismo y, en definitiva, para el capitalismo salvaje. Ese era el viejo sistema educativo. Esa era la ideología capitalista. Nosotros estamos construyendo la ideología socialista: la educación a partir de los valores de una auténtica sociedad, que es la enseñanza para vivir y trabajar en función del colectivo y por la unidad. En definitiva es la lucha de las ideas.”
Here he explains how they will teach capitalism, not exactly an open discussion. This sounds like indoctrination:
“Nosotros debemos decir porqué no estamos a favor del capitalismo y cuáles son los elementos ventajosos de las tesis socialistas.”

In case you still think they are open to discussions:
“Vamos a derrotar todos los males del capitalismo.”

And this is a pearl, almost like there are no gays in Venezuela:
“No es que vamos a inyectarle comunismo a los niños desde que nacen, es simplemente incluir en los currículo desde las primeras letras hasta los sectores universitarios de educación superior inyectar los valores, los auténticos valores de una sociedad, que es el socialismo".

Now, how on earth can you say that this is no indoctrination.

Rituparno Ghosh,  7:21 AM  

This kind of decision is hard to understand.

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